Dutch

2 years ago

What is your mental projection of the spatial relations of (modern Western) political ideologies?

By spatial relations I mean how much farther do you view for example conservatism (whatever your definition of that word) to the right of centrism. Is libertarianism more right-wing than conservatism, or not right-wing at all. I think people have a sort of mental projection or map of how political ideologies relate to each other. I am interested to hear how everyone views this, as it is crucial to understand to know what the other person means.

I really think it depends on what perspective is taken. Even in the West, conservatism can mean different things in different countries. Conservatism is the United States is much more right wing than in the United Kingdom or in Germany. Conservatism can even be left wing if the status quo is to maintain a left wing state, as in the Soviet Union before it collapsed. So it really just depends on the position of the country in question. For America, I would say conservatism is to the right, although I would question if many conservative policies are indeed conservative.

6 Comments

Personally, I'm not a fan of the left/right dichotomy because it lends itself to rigid definitions (Ahm the only true conservative here Dahnald). but I do think there is a little something to it. I always thought that better terms might be "rigidity" and "flexibility" in place of Conservative and Liberal, and even they do lead to some strange conclusions, such as hardline Stalinists being conservative in the context of the post-Stalin USSR. As a whole, I always liked to think of things on that spectrum, or even as "Order vs Chaos" or "Authoritarian vs Libertarian" My anti-authoritarian stance may have something to do with that, and obviously it's imperfect, but name a set up that is.

Libertarianism isn't right-wing.

There are three definitions that have been used for the left-right political spectrum. Cultural conservatism/liberalism (either in the sense of stance on vices and such, or the Burkean sense of standing for or against social change), economic progressivism/liberalism (this definition is only used by the makers of the political compass, who are libleft; and libertarians themselves), and stance on hierarchy (this is the most true-to-history definition, since originally a right-winger was an aristocrat and a left-winger a liberal or whig).

Of those three definitions, the one that's used almost exclusively by libertarians and Americans in general is the only one that defines libertarians as right-wing. The "cultural conservatism" definition puts libertarians typically on the left, and the hierarchy definition puts them firmly in the center.

Dutch

1 year ago

I agree with you and I think that is roughly the 2/3 ways left-right is decided. I had a conversation on Pearl a couple weeks back (on the premiere) about whether national-socialism/fascism was left-wing. I think it is an odd idea but it can only be that way from this American libertarian perspective.

Jake Saunders

1 year ago

I really think it depends on what perspective is taken. Even in the West, conservatism can mean different things in different countries. Conservatism is the United States is much more right wing than in the United Kingdom or in Germany. Conservatism can even be left wing if the status quo is to maintain a left wing state, as in the Soviet Union before it collapsed. So it really just depends on the position of the country in question. For America, I would say conservatism is to the right, although I would question if many conservative policies are indeed conservative.

Dutch

1 year ago

I think there should be a different word for conservatism that is just maintaining the political status quo and conservatism that is about maintaining certain values as dominant. In this sense conservatism can be very adaptive if it says that there should come a new system that promotes older (or more eloquently stated: timeless) values. In this way you can have ''conservative'' CCP members or ''conservative'' Soviet members, while their values were still the diametric opposite to what ''traditional'' values are. I like to understand and clear up confusing terms, but it is true that some people want terms to be confusing and misleading. American leftists are ''conservative'' about maintaining the current political system. They benifit most (think which side the media, big corporations, academia etc. side with). Obviously conservative as the idea that is about ''maintaining the system'' is not at all true for American Republicans (or atleast their voters): they are most opposed to it (lowest trust in institutions for example). The term conservative however would suggest the opposite.

Dutch

2 years ago

@Matthew DiMarcantonio

I talked earlier about how my @ function did not work. Turns out I can only @ people who I MUTED. I think the function broke when I muted a spammer in the first stream.

erhmmmm we'll fix it. the next couple of weeks it focused on stabiltiy of the product and moderation

1 Comment

erhmmmm we'll fix it. the next couple of weeks it focused on stabiltiy of the product and moderation

Dutch

2 years ago

Wie is hier Nederlands?

im from williamsburg virginia and spend a lot of time in nyc

1 Comment

im from williamsburg virginia and spend a lot of time in nyc